Everyone has done something wrong growing up, and most had parents to correct it. I pointed that out in the beginning, that parental guidance is good, but that eventually you grow up and make your own decisions and live with the consequences.

I think humans are naturally instinct driven, but because we have language and in general like to live in groups, we have come to the logic conclusion that we can’t kill each other over everything, that we need to have some sort of order to achieve something as a group. However, the downside is that every “pack” has a leader, and that leader might not be doing what everyone in the group likes

I think no one can write the rules that everyone obeys to, you can try to give the people directions at best, like the bible or like Buddha, or many other religions or ways of life. However, everyone makes up their own mind about what they value in their life, it’s simply impossible that all people live in peace and harmony, unfortunately.

I never said life is meaningless, I said “I think that too many people think that WE are of some importance, which I really believe we are not”, and what I mean by that is that I don’t think a live has a greater meaning and that there is no soul or spirit within that lives on when the body dies, when a live ends it ends. I think people just like to believe in a soul to deal better with the fact that they (their body) will die eventually. I never meant to say that life with worthless, in fact I believe the opposite, life is the most valuable possession we have

If someone would hurt my son or anyone else I care about, I would most likely try to hurt them back, if that is what I think is the right or best thing to do. This war mongering bayonet killing thing is a bit too much for me now, all I can say is that IF there is war, I try to be somewhere else.

When the stories of the bible were written, they had no clue about Dinosaurs. So they weren’t mentioned in the stories. However, we all know they existed on this planet long before us, there is proven facts, bones you can touch. The bible is quite young, compared to the existence of humans, and there were many other religions before Christianity, it has been written over something like 1500 years, so of course it is mostly based on real events, they are stories like folktales, some based on real events some not. About the prophecies and scripture… well, I don’t believe that people can see or predict the future, I think it is the same as what happens to the predictions by Nostradamus, they are interpreted to match events that happen.

I do believe in evolution, our genes are so close to all other life forms on this planet, it makes sense to me that we evolved to the beings we are today.

Anyways, I think you are right about us not being able to change each others believes and views on this topic, and I think that is ok… I really don’t want to start believing in a god, and I don’t think you want to have your believe changed by someone who knows next to nothing about the bible or God.

Thanks for the prayers, positive energy is always good!

And what is the point of morals or standards? I realize, of course, that most of what we learn is taught to us as we grow up. My mom and dad taught me that lying and stealing was wrong. Did I do it anyway? Yes. Why? Because it’s my nature to do so. Neither I nor Joshua has taught the children to do things they ought not to do, and yet they naturally do them. We find ourselves more often than not having to correct them and put them in a right line. Does that mean that humans are naturally incapable of goodness? Not at all. Humans do really nice things. Usually b/c in the end it’s good for them, but nevertheless they do good things. But, my question is, there is oftentimes where lying at the expense of our “neighbor” (being whoever) is to our own personal benefit. I mean, America is bombing Iraq and other places to hell because it’s in SOMEBODIES’ interest to do so. Is that right?

You said that what I believe is just, the next person may see as unjust. I absolutely agree. This is a fact. The point is, every singe one of us on this earth may have our own idea of justice, of right and wrong, but how does that lead to peace? It doesn’t! Someone, somewhere, sometime has to set up rules that everyone has to follow. The question is, who might that “someone” be? What gives one person the right to lay down rules and laws for me or anyone else? Maybe I should be that person!! Not really, but do you see my point? As long as this is the way it is, there will always be wars, and meaningless death and chaos. But, of course, to you that’s no big deal b/c life is meaningless anyway to a degree.

When you look at your son, is there meaning to his life? Yes, he brings happiness to you and his mother, but is that all? During the Nazi rule over Germany, soldiers would often mercilessly kill young children b/c “life is meaningless” and “the strong will survive”, “survival of the fittest” and so on and so forth b/c the thought of the day was “Darwinism”. What would you think if some asshole (German or American or otherwise) threw your child into the air and caught him with his/her bayonette? Why would sadness or anger grip you when, hey, that’s life? Instead, you would demand justice! But when those without a sense of justice or mercy are in charge (as is, even now, the case) then what of it? We’re all going to die and go into the ground and that’s the end. I could go on and on here, but ultimately, this is just not sound logic. It’s a nice theory and all, but thought all the way to it’s conclusion it is just too simple.

As much as you question things, Janos my friend, I’m surprised that you take ANYTHING that is mainstream (i.e. evolution) as gospel truth. “Everyone knows that it didn’t take a couple of days to create the world” — There is A LOT MORE that people DON’T KNOW than what they DO. We couldn’t possibly prove that it took longer, just as we couldn’t prove that it didn’t.

I’ve heard “Everyone knows that Global Warming is caused by humans”, “Everyone knows that terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Centers and incompetence on all levels of government kept it from being prevented”…….Everyone doesn’t know shit!! It takes a massive amount of study and searching for the truth to find it (not all the time, but most of the time). The Bible is full of stories that seem unreal, but you believe in aliens? (and I’m not implying here that I don’t, though I may see them as different from what you see them as). The Bible is also stories involving real people (historical) and real places and real events. Much of it’s history is proven to have occurred. That’s the difference b/w the Bible and ancient myths and legends. The Book of Daniel itself predicted the rise and fall of the 4 greatest empires on earth (Babylonian, Persian, Greecian and Roman…in that order) and was written years (in some cases hundreds of years) before the events happened. It speaks vividly of Alexander the Great and the aftermath of his empire (being divided into 4 segments, etc) long before it happened. How do you explain that? And it happens all the time in Scripture! Not just once, but hundreds of times! That compels me to take a closer look at it, even when it seems impossibly hard to understand at times and even hard to believe. I told you once before, that many of the things that are happening right now were written about in scripture. It really freaks me out! But I don’t take it lightly, even when it might not suit me, myself and I.

I appreciate hearing your views, so I hope you don’t mind me going on about mine. I don’t expect that I’ll change your views, just as you probably don’t expect to change mine; I would, however, be very satisfied if I could entice you to look into this subject a little more. You’ll still be my friend if you don’t though . You’ll just have to try and dodge all my prayers for you!! hehehe

I knew I would get a post from you on this one, hehe. Ok, I try to reply to your questions and thoughts as good as I can

There is no need for me to prove something doesn’t exist, if something exist you can prove it. Believing a god exist is just that – a believe, and it is a believe I don’t share. I, for example, believe in Aliens, others may say it’s dumb to believe in Aliens as you can’t prove they exist. It won’t change my believe, same as me saying that believing in a god is dumb, won’t change the mind of those who do believe in a god. To be more specific about my non-contradiction (how I call it now) it is like this, just because I think some things that a person believes or says is dumb, doesn’t mean I think that person is dumb. Many people I know are Christian, or Muslim or Hindu or believe in a god in some way, but I really don’t care what god(s) they believe in, I will always think that that particular believe is dumb, while I value very much the other believes and theories these people have, I would even have to say that many of them have a higher IQ than me.

Right or wrong, that is in fact a question of morals and social standards. For example is it totally ok to kill your wife for cheating, IF you are a hard core muslim… so, doing what is right or wrong is either/both what you think is right or wrong and what the people around you tell you is right or wrong. However, not being allowed to do something for the simple reason that you are going to burn in hell forever in your afterlife that is just something I don’t accept as a reason for not doing it, and in the same time being allowed to do something, that I would consider extremely bad and wrong, because you are in fact allowed to do it according to your religion is also wrong in my eyes. I would like to leave the decision to do something up to my own conscience and be unaffected by a believe of what might happen when I am dead. Just and unjust, well that’s like right or wrong, your moral compass is set by the people that affect your positively or negatively, and thus you call certain things right or wrong. It’s again a believe, and believe me there are people who believe what you believe is just is in their eyes unjust

I used to have bible study in school and I remember this one story where god turned an entire city to salt-stone-figures (don’t know the English term) because they were worshiping a golden lamb. Look at the variety of religions we have had in the past (before Christianity) and have now, and the amount of crimes being committed in the name of religions, why aren’t people turning to stone all around us?! In the story (and that is what I believe the bible/koran etc to be – collections of fictional stories) all they do is worship a golden lamb, they don’t even kill people, and still god gets so mad that he punishes them, and even turns the guy’s wife to stone when she looks back at the city when they run away from it.

Also I don’t believe in the creation story, everyone knows (I hope) that it didn’t take a couple of days to create the world. I believe this creation story just to be a folktale version of evolution, where the days are millions or billions of years… that makes actually some sense, even all the way up to adam and eve, because since humans evolved the way they did and became as many as we are, there is no more “paradise”, where food is abundant, instead we had to start working for it because we picked one apple to many, and there wasn’t enough left for all.

Ok, I don’t believe at all that the Universe has a meaning. I believe the Universe just is, and that we are a microbe in it with no meaning at all. Even if our sun would blow up tomorrow, it would have no meaning to the Universe, you wouldn’t even notice it when looking at the Universe, it would be like a single pigment in our skin changing color for a moment. I think that too many people think that WE are of some importance, which I really believe we are not. We are, then we aren’t. Just like any other life form on this planet and in the Universe. We are a part of the Universe, but that’s were out “meaning” ends.

Might sound a bit depressing, but I think it only sounds depressing to someone thinking that our life needs to have a greater meaning and that we can’t simply die and end to exist. I think my life has a great meaning in fact, even though it has no meaning at all when you look at the world from space, or at this country from across the border, or from another city to the city I live in. I believe “the meaning of life” is to have a meaning for the people around you, to be appreciated for being the person you are. For me there is nothing more rewarding and nothing that makes me feel better than someone saying to me “Janos, you are a nice person!” and really meaning it from his or her heart. For that I do everything I could possibly do while trying to make every day of my life a happy one, that is my meaning of life.

Thinking about what I just wrote, I really should revise the text a little… people might in fact think “Janos is an asshole”, when reading it out of context. That, I do not want

Does the lack of “believing” scientists prove that God does not exist? or that you are more intelligent if you are atheist? or is the creator of this youtube video impossibly biased? I have a close friend, a Jew (non-religious) who is in the science of genetics. When we met him seven years ago, he was an atheist. Now, while he’s no Christian (far from it!), in studying the intricacy of life that we can’t see he is convinced that there has to be an “intelligent being” who “got the ball rolling” so to speak.

Also, I wanted to point out that you contradict yourself in your post. You say that “people that believe in a god are [not] dumb”, but then you turn around and say “believing in one is [dumb]“. What’s the difference? And when you say that believing in “a god” means that you are “not in control of your life and can’t do what you feel is right or good” (question: how do you have a concept of what is right and good or wrong and bad? Where does that come from? does it not come from a higher power that gave to all men a sense of justice and retribution?) and “instead there would be a higher being guiding and judging [you] like a parent” in actuality, that’s in no way true, as the fact that there is a God (:-) I know, I just made a dogmatic statement attests that you are not being controlled and can go on doing whatever the hell you want to do! I believe in God, and He still doesn’t control my life. I can choose to do what I please. The only way I suppose that you could say we are “guided” is if we choose to follow our consciences (god-given). A man may go against his conscience, he has that freedom, but our consciences often dictate to us what that “right or good” path to follow is.

Allow me this quote from a former atheist who was and remained a logician for the duration of his life:

“[Christianity] thinks God made the world — space and time, heat and cold, and all the colours and tastes, and all the animals and vegetables, are things that God “made up out of His head” as a man makes up a story. But it also thinks that a great many things have gone wrong with the world that God made and that God insists, and insists very loudly, on our putting them right again.

And, of course, that raises a very big question. If a good God made the world why has it gone wrong? And for many years I simply refused to listen to the Christian answers to this question, because I kept on feeling “whatever you say, and however clever your arguments are, isn’t it much simpler and easier to say that the world was not made by any intelligent power? Aren’t all your arguments simply a complicated attempt to avoid the obvious?” But then that threw me back into another difficulty.

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it?…Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist — in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless — I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality — namely my idea of justice — was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. “Dark” would be without meaning.”

I don’t know, what do you think?